Follow-up to PSR

Discuss the practical use of Dramatica. Have questions about how throughlines should be used, how to create Complex Characters or even the various combinations of the 12 Essential Questions and how they will affect your story go here.
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Follow-up to PSR

Postby kintelary » Nov 15, 2014 2:16 pm

Please bear with me, I am recovering from surgery and may not come across well.


The PSR shows a very good example of where the Plot and Theme get out of phase and how seeing the problem gets warped. Right?

Chris, you said that the order of plot is important, because that order holds the story together in broad strokes. Right?

Then you said theme is explored as relative comparisons, but it also is a kind of sequence order (like plot), but doesn't make much difference. Right?

Finally, you said that Armando uses the order in his sequences. Which you say is fine and he explores in that way, but it is not necessary. Right?

I'm trying to be able to write any story (short, novel, movie, play, whatever). Not so much be able to write them as be able to help develop them with dramatica and make them fit into any medium.

So, my question:

Context of question:
The complexity of relationships at the top is simply Dynamic, Companion, Dependent, Component, and Collective (this level being the Storymind - Superset)
The complexity of relationships at the second level is more, because there are four different interacting groups of those relationships (taken together represent the plot of the storymind as a superset). These relationships are made manageable by working with them in four different throughlines and creating a matrix of events that allows comparisons and analysis for consistency.
The complexity of relationships at the third level is even more, because these groups are explored out of phase, which can also be seen in the matrix.
*At this level, we can change the order and still manage to get the same argument overall, but maybe not the most efficient argument?
Since this is seen as a bit "complex" for people trying to write stories, the rest of the relationships ordering character exploration as it interrelates with Theme is left off because there was no way to make it manageable and it wouldn't make a lot of difference for the amount of time investment that minutia would produce.
But, the relationships are still the same and interrelate and can be placed on the matrix and compared for consistency, etc.

Since my interest is mastering all story so that I can help people communicate effectively in any medium, what if I wanted to explore all the relationships that are possible within one storyform?

Is there some way to get a Theme Sequence Report that lists character like the PSR lists theme?
Since the nature of the throughlines have MC exploring his own internal journey and the IC exploring her own influence on the MC and the RS exploring the relationship between MC and IC, the only one left to have dramatic characters is OS and that means 64 elements.
The problem exists as one of those. So, the characters populating the story will carry the problem in one of them. The solution will be in one of them, the symptom in one and the response in one (if I understand OS character correctly anyway). Two of these characters will be the MC and IC. That means up to 62 other characters (if we really wanted to). But whatever we do, there will be interactions according to where the character elements are out of phase with Theme.

It seems that the only two ways that the OS elements can be organized are under the theme being explored and out of phase with plot or under the plot and out of phase with the theme. But there is so much I still have to learn that this is just conjecture.

In the event that character is out of phase with theme, plot, and perspective, how can that be determined?
It is probably obvious what I am asking, but I'm a bit out of it (medications - fun stuff).

If the exploration of plot out of phase with plot makes the story unwind to reveal the path to realizing the source of the problem, then isn't it just as important to do the same for character? Since the way that they explore their relationships will move them toward unraveling toward the next sequence and then signpost? I know that creative types prefer the freedom to explore their muse and let that take over to create art, but I am interested in dramatics as practical application to the range of possibilities and how to fluidly managed that range of possibilities within story creation - paint by numbers? Sure, with a little attention to the storytelling, the more detailed dramatics give a sound underpinning to have confidence in an objective process that measures and predicts outcomes in story.

It may be that I have gone well beyond any question that might be answerable. Sorry about that.

Take care :)

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Re: Follow-up to PSR

Postby Chris Huntley » Nov 17, 2014 9:21 am

The patterns that exist in the PSR are applicable to the PSR only and do not imply what is happening "above" or "below" the Types and Variations, so there isn't any way to manually predict the Class and Element level interactions except by following your writer's instincts.

There could be reports developed (by Write Brothers) to explore those other areas, but the complexity at the element level when one translates it to storyencoding and storyweaving makes it difficult to distinguish between intent and noise. Almost like looking at computer assembly language while trying to understand it from the compiled running application created from it. If one has the skills and patience, an experience programmer can understand the connections but those connections will not explain the gestalt experienced by the end user.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, the nature of the items in the Dramatica structure -- when used in the context of a storyform -- inherently indicate their meaning and relationships to other story points in the storyform in the same way as nouns relate to verbs, adjectives, and adverbs. Use the "language" of story properly and meaning seems to "spring forth" from it whether you intend it to or not.
Chris Huntley
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Re: Follow-up to PSR

Postby kintelary » Nov 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Yeah, there is a lot that has been addressed elsewhere and so much I have read, but understanding is perspective and context and that is where I fall a lot.

I was just coming here to say "nevermind" because it finally clicked that PSR is a structural view of (as you say) End User experience.

What I think I hear you saying (as I hear when I read), that the storyform has all the necessary relationships to write the story.

One of the other problems I am having is that I am not a writer and I am using Dramatica to develop my "Writer's Instincts." ;)

I was a bit under the influence the last week or so and now my head is getting clearer. So, I'll try to avoid complicating the issues with my blended contexts and misunderstandings. I'll back off with the random questions too. I'm seeing the way Mental Relativity helps in personal problem-solving. I'm considering ways to use it to help counsel people. :)


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