Christmas stories grand argument?
Posted: May 30, 2008 9:32 am
dalei24x -- Christmas stories grand argument?
I'm very new to Dramatica...and haven't even finished the theory book...but I'm intrigued by the theory and am enjoying my foray into the theory so far...
I'm thinking it might be helpful to list stories which aren't grand argument... It's Chrismas as I ponder this, so....Is the Grinch story GA? If so, who are the Main and Impact Characters? Guess the Grinch is the Main Character; obviously he changes...but who is the character that changes him? It's not really Whoville (the town...and can a whole town be a "subjective character"?) so...is it the spirit of Christmas? I just can't name a player (character) who is the Impact Character... yet I can't help believing the Grinch story is Grand Argument in nature....
What about the Rudolph story... again, Rudolph is obviously the Main Character and he changes... no discernable impact character? North Pole Village as Impact..but they change, too--they finally accept Rudolph...again, it's gotta be GA...right?
It violates the theory to say the conflict is man vs. himself (or reindeer or Grinch vs. himself)but it seems to me you really have a metaphor for maturity in these stories (especially Rudolph)--so can a person be both Main Character and Impact?
Obviously, I'm loving my discoveries as I work with Dramatica...and to all a Merry Christmas...
PS: are there non-GA stories that have been made into popular movies or successful novels?
Graham The Grinch #1
I don't remember Rudolph's story well enough, but I'm a big fan of the Grinch. I think "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" is a Grand Argument Story, but it's so short, so maybe it's not completely explored. But there are definitely Main and Impact Characters...and I think they are the Grinch and Whoville. Some may argue it's Cindy-Lou, but I think she just represents Whoville. It's not she alone who causes the Grinch to change, but it's the whole town. The Grinch hates everything the Who's are doing in preparation for Christmas (I think that is established early in the story). But at the end he is moved by the fact that they did not let his grinchiness stop them from celebrating.
By the way, the reason the Grinch is the Main Character is because we experience the story through his perspective, not because he changes. It could have been the Impact Character that changed (the Who's could have given up on Christmas), and then the Main Character would have remained steadfast (the Grinch would still hate Christmas).
Graham
majako73 Re: The Gricnh #2
I'm new and trying to figure this out also. Is there no antagonist in the Grinch? Doesn't there have to be one someplace? How about the Grinch himself, since he embodies HINDER. Hope I'm not complicating this more....
dalei24x No antagonist? #3
Thanks for responding... Is is true that every story must have the subjective characters, Main and Impact...but if the story is made of complex characters there might not be a character thought of as the Antagonist? or even the Protagonist... Dramatica seems much more focused on Main and Impact, not so much on the Archetypes of Protagonist, Antagonist, etc. The whole theory is fascinating to me--I've learned much...still miles to go before I'm comfortable with it...
Chris Huntley Re: No antagonist? #4
The Grinch is clearly the antagonist. The Who's want to celebrate Christmas and the Grinch is against it. The Grinch is ALSO the Main Character--it's his personal story we're sharing. He is a Change MC and that's shown as a Judgment of Good. The Who's celebrate Christmas so it's also an Outcome of Success.
Cindy Lou Who is the closest thing to a single Impact Character, though she seems to be representative of the Who ethic and perspective. As a short story, there's not enough "real estate" to explore the storyform fully, but the broad strokes seem to be there with some areas explored much more fully.
In Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, there are two parallel stories intertwined. In one you have Rudolf on one side and the other reindeer on the other with Comet (?) the most critical. In the other story you have Hermie the elf that wants to be a dentist and is derided by the head elf. Rudolph and Hermie run off and then come back to save the day. Both Comet and the head elf have a change of heart and accept/tolerate their return.
The argument is there but it's pretty light-weight. Still, the fact that it's there is one of the reasons it's so enduring and can sustain repetitive viewings.
Chris Huntley
Write Brothers
I'm very new to Dramatica...and haven't even finished the theory book...but I'm intrigued by the theory and am enjoying my foray into the theory so far...
I'm thinking it might be helpful to list stories which aren't grand argument... It's Chrismas as I ponder this, so....Is the Grinch story GA? If so, who are the Main and Impact Characters? Guess the Grinch is the Main Character; obviously he changes...but who is the character that changes him? It's not really Whoville (the town...and can a whole town be a "subjective character"?) so...is it the spirit of Christmas? I just can't name a player (character) who is the Impact Character... yet I can't help believing the Grinch story is Grand Argument in nature....
What about the Rudolph story... again, Rudolph is obviously the Main Character and he changes... no discernable impact character? North Pole Village as Impact..but they change, too--they finally accept Rudolph...again, it's gotta be GA...right?
It violates the theory to say the conflict is man vs. himself (or reindeer or Grinch vs. himself)but it seems to me you really have a metaphor for maturity in these stories (especially Rudolph)--so can a person be both Main Character and Impact?
Obviously, I'm loving my discoveries as I work with Dramatica...and to all a Merry Christmas...
PS: are there non-GA stories that have been made into popular movies or successful novels?
Graham The Grinch #1
I don't remember Rudolph's story well enough, but I'm a big fan of the Grinch. I think "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" is a Grand Argument Story, but it's so short, so maybe it's not completely explored. But there are definitely Main and Impact Characters...and I think they are the Grinch and Whoville. Some may argue it's Cindy-Lou, but I think she just represents Whoville. It's not she alone who causes the Grinch to change, but it's the whole town. The Grinch hates everything the Who's are doing in preparation for Christmas (I think that is established early in the story). But at the end he is moved by the fact that they did not let his grinchiness stop them from celebrating.
By the way, the reason the Grinch is the Main Character is because we experience the story through his perspective, not because he changes. It could have been the Impact Character that changed (the Who's could have given up on Christmas), and then the Main Character would have remained steadfast (the Grinch would still hate Christmas).
Graham
majako73 Re: The Gricnh #2
I'm new and trying to figure this out also. Is there no antagonist in the Grinch? Doesn't there have to be one someplace? How about the Grinch himself, since he embodies HINDER. Hope I'm not complicating this more....
dalei24x No antagonist? #3
Thanks for responding... Is is true that every story must have the subjective characters, Main and Impact...but if the story is made of complex characters there might not be a character thought of as the Antagonist? or even the Protagonist... Dramatica seems much more focused on Main and Impact, not so much on the Archetypes of Protagonist, Antagonist, etc. The whole theory is fascinating to me--I've learned much...still miles to go before I'm comfortable with it...
Chris Huntley Re: No antagonist? #4
The Grinch is clearly the antagonist. The Who's want to celebrate Christmas and the Grinch is against it. The Grinch is ALSO the Main Character--it's his personal story we're sharing. He is a Change MC and that's shown as a Judgment of Good. The Who's celebrate Christmas so it's also an Outcome of Success.
Cindy Lou Who is the closest thing to a single Impact Character, though she seems to be representative of the Who ethic and perspective. As a short story, there's not enough "real estate" to explore the storyform fully, but the broad strokes seem to be there with some areas explored much more fully.
In Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, there are two parallel stories intertwined. In one you have Rudolf on one side and the other reindeer on the other with Comet (?) the most critical. In the other story you have Hermie the elf that wants to be a dentist and is derided by the head elf. Rudolph and Hermie run off and then come back to save the day. Both Comet and the head elf have a change of heart and accept/tolerate their return.
The argument is there but it's pretty light-weight. Still, the fact that it's there is one of the reasons it's so enduring and can sustain repetitive viewings.
Chris Huntley
Write Brothers